From: tbcox23@yahoo.com | Block Address | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: Fear and the use of force (was Re: China) (fwd)
To: paulcox@marlboro.edu, jim.cox@mindspring.com, johnfcox@aol.com
CC: rockers@med.stanford.edu
My Yahoo mail limits messages to 10k so I have
to take this in bites. Sorry.
--- Paul Adams Cox
> More importantly, FEAR AND THE THREAT OF FORCE -LEAD-
> TO COOPERATIVE BEHAVIOR. I didn't write this stuff.
> Ask any biologist, zoologist, or
> economist who is current in his field.
> But just because fear is necessary for
> cooperative behavior doesn't mean
> we all need nuclear warheads rammed up
> our nostrils to keep us in line.
No, here I disagree with Paul.
Cooperation can ALWAYS arise in a scenario
where neither person can initiate force
upon the other. It is not guaranteed
to arise, but it can.
However, one element MUST be present: the
ability of each party to stop playing
and go home when he wants to.
As long as the transaction is win-win,
is repeated over time, and each person
can detect cheating, then cooperation is
actually pretty common.
However, as soon as one person can FORCE
the other to play the game, that person
no longer needs to keep up his end -- he
can just take from the other.
David, your error lies in thinking that
if everybody is aggressive, we can get
bad outcomes. Quite the contrary -- it's
when only one or two are aggressive that
we get bad outcomes. Once all parties
are equally able to meet force with equal
force that the advantage goes away and
we are free to try to cooperate again.
So the next bit that Paul wrote is right:
> All it means is that peace and order is
> kept -- on some level -- through
> the threat of force.
Mostly true. The exception comes from
people who are powerless to harm each other,
and only have the choices of "cooperate",
"cheat", and "stop".
Once a single person gets the choice
to "aggress", he gets to take without
giving until the other people also get
the option to respond with force. Then
we can return to peace.
Keep trying, David. How long have you
been a Utopian Socialist?
-Tom
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